speakyourmind
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it's me ! your friendly aashole !
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Post by speakyourmind on Oct 9, 2013 22:01:54 GMT
that reminds me of a quote :«i´m a nihilist,i believe in nothing» but probably i did not noticed that,whatever. the artwork is clean,but it doesn't match the roguelike genre , it looks like a rpg for kids,maybe i'll have to swallow it in anear future. to me , it looks like na atempt to keep the fórum online,maybe , but , be bold ! if this thing comes up , it will be «based on the rogue survivor game » honest.
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Post by tao on Oct 11, 2013 14:26:47 GMT
+1 Karma for constructive criticism. I'll address you're concerns in the best way I can.
1. "the artwork is clean,but it doesn't match the roguelike genre" No the artwork doesn't match the genre or game style. I'm not entirely satisfied either. On the other hand too much of the genre style consists of 90s quality pixelart and ascii graphics. Nothing wrong with nostalgia, but remakes of other roguelikes have been able to improve on this without destroying the original feel. Now, what I have is very much placeholder work, clean but not ideal in anyway. Like I said before, I'm a hobbyist, and this is a way for me to improve while giving back to the internet.
2. "it looks like a rpg for kids." Yep, because before this all I worked on artwise besides actual painting/sketching, was RPG tilesets and isometric sprites. I could have matched the original style or took inspiration from one of the mods but I wasn't looking to spend forever on placeholders, and did it the way I chose. I'm just going to end up going back and redoing all the art anyway, and undoubtedly there will be graphics mods--which is part of the reason I haven't put up anything in the way of concept art or new tiles, because I had to get started on the code. Of course anyone is free to pitch in on the art if they like.
3. "It looks like an attempt to keep the forum online." If the forum went down I'd just start a new one. I sent out requests for the return of moderators but no one replied, which *is* going to be an issue in a couple months.
4. "It will be 'based on the rogue survivor game. honest' "
I don't know if you even bothered to read prior posts. If you did read my prior posts you would see what the plans are. Foundation and then Framework. Remake, and then expansion of it. Core gameplay stays the same, with avenues for improvement in gameplay that already exists, such as different types of survivor based on skillset; and this is really an example of what I mean to change. The icons and survivor types don't change gameplay in any manner, they are *just* a visual indicator for survivors who match certain broad criteria. This way, if you DO decide to play 'follow the leader' and have a bunch of NPCs, you don't have to glance at their skills to see if they would be right for a task. It is a visual and mental reminder for what skills go good together, what skills are good for specialization.
You sound like you are worried I'm going to change some things. Your worry is justified. >;] See, when you create a remake you don't just copy, you improve. I look at remakes, and in particular this remake, and say "This is fun. This is great. But there are a few WTF moments, and glaring nonsense here and there."
Like not being able to get followers to tag along across district boundaries unless they are right next to you.
Or not having better means to manage survivors in a group
Or not utilizing the narrative opportunities that the zombie genre offers
Or not having any long term motivation for players, besides 'survive x days', instead of building or working towards something. No missions, no plot, no goals, no 'fight this horde', or 'escape this district', nothing, not even in the barest sense.
No meaningful differences between NPCs besides skill set, and very few reasons to keep them alive or improve them in the long term.
An interface that is more minimalist than it needs to be. It should be as minimal as it has to be, and no simpler.
and the biggest problem, a dev that has vanished off the face of the earth, without so much as a whisper of a reason. Maybe he got hit by a bus? Who knows? But he left a great game, albeit unfinished, to gather dust, and a lot of people hanging--even if most of em are lurkers.
Cheers, I'll have something up sometime in the evening tomorrow, timezones not withstanding.
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nope
Member
Posts: 150
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Post by nope on Oct 12, 2013 1:42:02 GMT
Followers not being able to follow despite being two steps away is bullshit, i agree, and so do I towards managing Survivors.
However, do remember that the main point of the game is that you're another survivor in a Zombie Apocalypse, Narrative Opportunities and purposes are completely moot, since you're surviving, nothing else.
Long-Term motivation, think about it : In a Zombie Apocalypse, there would be no goal, there would be no plot or mission or quests, there is only death and survival, you're not a superhuman with powerful skills, you're not an enhanced bionic/transhuman survivor, you're just another ordinary survivor.
No meaningful differences? Once again, I would like to bring up that this is a Zombie Survival game where all are the same, where every survivor is the same, separated only by luck, willingness and level of violence, what, were you expecting every survivor to be uniquely different in a game where it's broadcasted that you're just another ordinary Joe trying not to die? Not to mention, the presence of unique NPCs would only result in powergaming even with proper intentions, because it's impossible to not think of making an entire team with the best unique abilities/traits.
The interface is good enough, I don't see any problems.
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speakyourmind
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it's me ! your friendly aashole !
Posts: 46
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Post by speakyourmind on Oct 12, 2013 18:25:44 GMT
My Last post was dissected and reassembled,lol I look at remakes, and in particular this remake, and say "This is fun. This is great. But there are a few WTF moments, and glaring nonsense here and there." Read more: roguesurvivor.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=ggd&thread=299&page=2#2125#ixzz2hX4ZWwA3There's also The whole way the game was created , that make especially the Load times a pain um the junk. I Don't want ti play that three hundred days game , and wait half an hour . I don't know if you even bothered to read prior posts. If you did read my prior posts you would see what the plans are Read more: roguesurvivor.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=ggd&thread=299&page=2#2125#ixzz2hX5rnKPBhei ,i did Red it , i just didn't cracked My Head to have some space for all of them,that was an Second glance oppinion. I dont believe in misson-likes chances.the only difere les between z and humans os Tue ability to discuss and cooperate.but in Tue game they just havn't The knack! There's no sense that choppers are sent whit personell and no civilian can Group together and fare like mens! the militar and blackops just ran away and scaterred trough the lands, they were sent! My timezone os greenwhich 0 . By the way , not Greenpeace. Cheers to everyone!i AM a Lurker!how can u tell?c[img src="[/img] "]os i said so, lol.
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Post by tao on Oct 13, 2013 21:02:26 GMT
Le Sigh. Wanted to be ready for yesterday but interruptions happen. Anyway I'm pursuing something that will hopefully improve turn around time by a significant margin, so I can start producing more than technology demos (if a menu with colored text could be called technology).
As an aside, when I talk about unique NPCs, I don't mean special survivors like secret agents or crap like that, or super powered individuals. I'm talking cosmetics. Being able to tell at a glance who is who. Having a random generator for appearance, that keeps track of name combinations already used, or hair/body/clothe combinations already used. Giving NPCs personality. Some might be mouthy, others more willing to share, a few who prefer combat to tending the safehouse and get bored easy. NPCs still remain the same.
This doesn't mean the game should suddenly get easier to cater to this playstyle. If you build a fort it should be just as quick to fall to pieces as forts in the current game. If you want to play 'the governor' or somesuch, that should be an option.
When I speak narrative or 'missions', I'm not talking about a prewritten plot. I'm talking about detecting conditions in the game and prompting players with decisions. Sort of like triggered events. So for example, you talk to an NPC in your safehouse after you sent them scouting a district to the north. They inform you there are bikers heading south towards you. Any NPC nearby could be triggered to suggest you flee, or stay and fight. This could happen at any point that bikers are detected. When an NPC makes a suggestion you could be prompted with an "Agree/Disagree" decision. Maybe some NPCs disagree with you, then you get flavor text like "your gonna get us killed.", or "this plan is dangerous."
It is all cosmetic to enhance atmosphere and engage the player better. When players have to make explicit decisions, where before a decision like this (to fight or flee a dangerous mob such as biker gangs) was implicit, it adds strategic and narrative undertones, supporting gameplay that already exists.
Otherwise, in terms of gameplay, the difficulty remains the same, and the mechanics do too. Besides, feature parity comes first. And so there is no doubt , I've torn out my own pixelart and plugged in a mix of base graphics and graphics mods for now.
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nope
Member
Posts: 150
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Post by nope on Oct 14, 2013 10:00:12 GMT
Personally, I think that having the player make his own decision(Fight/Flee), and having the player hear what a scout would have to say for himself, is much more preferential to, say, giving an explicit "Yes or No" question.
In a sense, it's up to the player whether he wants to listen to his followers and scouts, or if he prefers to ignore everyone.
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Post by tao on Oct 20, 2013 15:53:25 GMT
Game Update (10-20013)
Okay, I'm a day late and an update short. So here is the gist of it: I made a few changes to my development pipeline. Consequently I'm getting things done a lot faster and we are looking at a test release late today or sometime tomorrow, but *no* later than that! ;D
It won't be anywhere near complete. I got basic map rendering done, busy adding dynamic level loading and random generation. I made a level editor so I can edit whole chunks to create custom buildings, and I'm going with a simplistic self-made scripting language. The language will not be powerful enough to radically alter gameplay, but a simple configuration language similar to TCL/TK. I've done interpreters before so no, this won't be a god awful sloppy mess, or slow, or take forever, or badly designed, etc. Ease your worries. Anyway, scripting comes later.
I got to go to a family get together but again, expect it very late today or sometime monday. It is shaping up to be a basic map/rendering tech demo, where you move around and look at part of a map. So get excited, but not too excited.
By next saturday (or so I say every update) I want dynamic chunk loading ready to go, along with partial or simple dynamic world generation. After that I'll be looking to convert over to the component system which should be less of an issue now that I've refactored everything and have the skeleton code in place.
What we are looking at is settling into a pattern of an actual release every other week, with text updates in-between. I wish I could work faster but thats all I have time for. Got to run.
Dev Schedule October 20/21 - Map rendering demo
November 2nd - Dynamic world loading / world generation
November 16th - State machine demos and simple actors/NPCs
Cheers! I'll keep you posted.
p.s. Thanks for not doubting me just because I'm a day late. I'll do my best to be on time with the updates from now on.
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rafe
Junior Member
Posts: 97
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Post by rafe on Oct 31, 2013 1:11:12 GMT
I was hoping for something like this. Good luck and put your hearth in it.
Edit: Tell me if you need help testing things.
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Post by nickboom on Nov 1, 2013 22:07:12 GMT
Rafe yelled at me to get over here so here I am. Let me know if you need help with anything. Im currently trying to get some people from another game that was revived by the fans, Cataclysm DDA, to come over and help out a bit.
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Post by tao on Nov 3, 2013 14:28:34 GMT
Game Update (11 - 3 - 2013) Sorry for disappearing. I vanished from the face of the earth for a bit because things in my life changed. It has been a bit hectic to say the least.
I haven't had time to work on much and I'm a better spriter than coder. Parts of the game are a pain. I refactored the code, and am working on a bug with the display surfaces to get the camera back to normal instead of showing wrong chunks in the wrong places.
A consequence of the bigger map size is that buildings will have meaningful layouts when everything is done. Also streaming will be easier to implement once this part is finished because the difference between virtual chunks and loaded chunks is well defined. So I can virtualize mobs, items, props, generalizing them in aggregate, as the players moves a certain distance from them, and load the actual object data as the player comes near.
Finally, I was wondering if anyone thought it would be interesting for the graphic style to change, perhaps to top down perspective? It would be more realistic anyway, and we can't see the character's faces as it is. The atmosphere, as a 'serious' game, would be improved. What do you think?
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rafe
Junior Member
Posts: 97
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Post by rafe on Nov 5, 2013 19:35:05 GMT
You are amazing, keep up the good work. Remember me when you need testers.
Edit: Hey, are you planning into adding some sort of sneaking into this game?
It could be an useful feature to sneak behind a small barricade to see if there are zombies outside.
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nope
Member
Posts: 150
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Post by nope on Nov 9, 2013 18:54:02 GMT
Whilst changing and adding features is a major part of resurrecting a game as a new fan-mod, however, remember that, change it too much, and it won't be the same game.
Just keep that in mind as you go about your radical and lunatical imaginations and codings, and, as you code and sprite and the sorts, try to keep it as close to the original as possible, adding and changing things is good, but change too much, it'll effectively turn into a Xenomorph, it's what on the outside that matters, the core genetics and name matters little if the outside is completely different.
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rafe
Junior Member
Posts: 97
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Post by rafe on Nov 10, 2013 16:40:32 GMT
Well, Nope, the gamedoes not have to be perfect from the start. Small mistakes, like the ones you are describing, can be corrected with little effort. It is the core of the game what they have to get right. Sprites in this game are pretty basic to do and change, so I would not be worried about details like these.
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Post by darkartemisfowl on Nov 21, 2013 16:24:35 GMT
I like where you're going with this. Maybe I could help with the pixel art, maybe make something more similar to the likes of the original Rogue Survivor, shamblers and all. If that's okay with you. Also, what code language is this in?
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rafe
Junior Member
Posts: 97
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Post by rafe on Nov 21, 2013 20:40:14 GMT
An style close to the original would be great, at least to start somewhere. I still like it a lot, it makes you concentrate on the game rather than looking at pretty pictures.
I dislike games that focus on graphics and forget features make the game.
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