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Post by tao on Sept 14, 2013 1:38:36 GMT
scroll to the bottom for new updates. Also at some point I will fix the general terribleness of this 1st post. Are you sad that rogue survivor is fading? Are you disappointed the forums are dying? Do you wish to breath new life into this project? Enter "Rogue Survivor Reboot". Lets make a new Rogue Survivor. Together. I'm just a part time pixel artist and coder, but I can't do this without you guys. I need your input, your criticism, and most of all your 'is it done yet?'. RSR is just an informal name for now. It is intended to "nicefy" the original Rogue Survivor. The goal is basically a spiritual successor to RS, expanding on and polishing it. It will also serve as a test bed for simulator/emulation/AI experimentation, with a light, casual-feeling game and emergent gameplay. Beyond this, I have a lot of ideas and designs. Heres a little tileset teaser (just a mockup for now) with my meager, but diligent pixel art. I'll post the outlines for the new game here tomorrow. Hopefully some of you decide to respond. I'd love to hear what you have to say. -Cheers
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nope
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Post by nope on Sept 14, 2013 11:11:46 GMT
Normally, this would've gotten you laughed at and shamed, but considering the community's nothing more than shambles now, you're in a spot to garner some possible support.
Just remember that this thread has condemned you into creating it, there's no way out now, no "I actually don't feel like doing it", or similar, the only option is to not do it and get shamed, after all, the remnants of the community are tougher than usual on failures and the overconfident.
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Post by tao on Sept 14, 2013 20:25:35 GMT
How will you choose to live?Hi again. Didn't think I would return eh? I want to leave survival strategy up the to player, keep the game feeling as much as possible like the original. Let players explore different tactics and strategies to see how they work. You can go "Lone Wolf" using Cunning to evade enemies or you could go it alone on Courageous loot n' shoots. Better yet, why not Team up with other survivors (NPCs)? With Clever strategies and careful planning you can succeed against much greater numbers; finally, when all else fails, their is always bruteforce Confrontation, survivor group versus zombie horde. What is needed is to mildly improve on the play possibilities available to players who prefer lone wolf style survival , and greatly build on/enhance the survival options for players who prefer group play with NPCs -- as this area is sorely lacking. It shouldn't just be about how you survive. It should be about how you *choose* to *live*, and how far you will go to do so. In order to fulfill my goals I will make RSR in layers, starting with... 1. The Foundation. Rebooting Rogue Survivor, by making RSR nearly feature equivalent. The game architecture should leave the design open, and easily expandable. Common player issues and problem mechanics will be rebalanced minimally, but strive to keep the feel of the original game. The skeleton of a framework for a simulation sandbox will be put in place. 2. The Frame. RSR will incorporate survivor styles/personalities for NPCs, an AI Director, groups, relationships (two NPCS share a last name? Perhaps they are family?), and the support for utilizing and manipulating these systems to build dynamic and uniquely generated narrative. 3. The Facade. Finally I will focus on better artwork, better performance, modding tools, and balancing. The long term is to create a simulation sandbox that can be built on. I want to allow players to play as lone wolves, or get in groups with NPCs, clearing/securing and capturing individual buildings, streets, intersections, and even blocks, or playing as individual/groups of hunter/gatherer types just trying to escape the undead. The framework of the sandbox should provide context to generate interesting situations, dilemmas, and decisions. Players should never say to themselves 'wow the gameplay is kind of repetitive" or "NPCs are dumb and uninspiring.' I want to read player comments that say "I never thought that lone gang member that got away would return to his buddies with information about my little hideout with a supply cache!" "I cant believe that NPC officer in my team found out about my best survivor's criminal past and confronted him. Good thing they had high trust and I was there to mediate or it could have got ugly." "The game really keeps me on my toes. Just when it seems like I have some breathing room and it could get boring, it throws a horde of zombies at me or a roving group of hungry survivors." "I captured a whole apartment building! I'm expanding to capture the surrounding four streets, cleaning up the bodies, and barricading. Gonna be nice with the generator I installed." "Thanks for finally adding that feature everyone has been asking for on the forums. It really should have been part of RS to start with." .. or if you prefer "my god this attempt is terrible. KILL IT WITH FIRE." Also I welcome your condemnation, delicious criticism. Heres a little pixel art I did. One parked car, one crashed. Basically when I work on something I do mockups to get an idea of UI, environment, etc, expanding on each previous piece as I go. Working on some of the base character icons which I will have up by tomorrow. I Started on the core code today as well. -Cheers!
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nope
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Post by nope on Sept 15, 2013 6:50:06 GMT
The comments will only come when you've finally finished and dusted it off, do not expect any praises until you actually do it.
You cannot expect us to praise you when we have nothing to actually praise, oh, and fix the images, they ain't knowing up.
I've seen way too many false promises of a new game/mod, UnrealSoftware.de is filled with those kinda guys, and We'll once again see if you fall into the False Promises category, or in the "Actually does it" category.
But, for the most part, A few major status updates will get you farther than one or two pixel arts a day.
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Post by whatever111 on Sept 16, 2013 13:48:42 GMT
Yes yes yes yes yes YES YES! Please make it happen somehow, Rogue Survivor is still one of my favorite games and I wanted to see it grow even more, it's just so fun but it can be so much more! I know nothing about coding (yet), so all I can do is to wish you luck and support mentally, unless you need help with human psyche, then I'm your guy.
Anyway, I'll be looking out for this! Have you considered posting stuff about it on Reddit? You could find aspiring game developers there to help you out.
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Post by tao on Sept 16, 2013 21:30:42 GMT
Its coming along...
I took your advice Nope and am working on a more substantial release before anything.
The current tileset has essentially doubled, and I have two basic art styles I'm looking at for character design. The first art style is practically done, and I have a three step walking animation, idle animation, and a few hairstyles.
UI will be in the works soon, along with FX such as rain, attacks, etc. Also still working on balancing the palette, adding in environment elements like trees, and so forth.
Hoping to have a couple of mockups up by this time tomorrow, along with more details.
Edit: No I hadn't considered reddit. This isn't even *close* to ready for the withering hatred of the internet in general. I'll keep you posted though.
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Post by tao on Sept 17, 2013 20:58:20 GMT
ZombiesWhile I have a fair bit done at this point, I'm not yet at the point where I want to show it all. Night is partially done, as are lamps that light up. I have another variation of car but thats if we ever go 32x32. Also...zombies! theres the idle animation for the lone survivor in the picture. I have walking animations and a female version, but at this time I haven't adapted the hair or clothes to go with them. I'm not really satisfied with the survivor yet compared to the zombies but I'm working on it. :\ Weapons are very much a WIP and I want to get started on the UI but need to get the environment out of the way. Zombies are obviously very generic but I'm looking at ways in which they can be customized without obscuring the overall shape and design. Their still naked, static, and bald. Eventually those walls will be smoothed together when placed next to each other, in addition to having roofs that pop off when you walk inside, and reappear when you walk out. Anyway, back to the grind stone. I'll keep you posted. =) -Cheers!
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Post by tao on Sept 21, 2013 21:51:45 GMT
Just a quick update on the Rogue Survivor Remake: I've put together some placeholder art. I'm working on the code, mostly the title screen and level data loader/saver, just simple stuff for now. Level randomization, districts, world streaming, etc, will come after. Edit: So while coding today I took a little excursion into pixel-art land. Then I ended up opening rogue survivor. Then I ended up playing. For two and a half hours. ;D Anyway the thing I tended to notice was, when playing as a group, it became hard to keep track of what role each character performed. Things tended to get chaotic. You could keep survivors alive and upgrade their skills with time but there was no clear path or hint at what direction to develop them in. Enter jobs! For starters, lets get a (quick) mockup. There we go. The Soldier and The Survivor are just two example roles for now. The idea is that if a character has some base skill, or fulfills a requirement for a given set of skills then they get a role icon next to their name, or even part of their sprite. Additionally each of these Roles serves a different function or play style, and the icons help indicate what each character is (generally) good at. The base role is... Survivor. They are good at melee defense. They can, for gameplays sake, handle other weapons, but they are much better with improvised melee weapons (frying pans, spears, plank with a nail in it, etc) From there a character may gain skills and become.. + A Scavenger. These NPCS are good with melee assault, and work best with dedicated melee weapons and high quality improvised melee weapons (crowbars, fire axes, swords, police batons, combat knifes) + A Sentry. These NPCs specialize in ranged defense, and work best with, hunting rifles and semiautomatics pistols + A Soldier. They are good at ranged assault, and work best with fully automatic weapons and smgs. Additionally they may have tiers (i.e. Sentry -> Sniper, Soldier -> Special Forces, etc), requiring you to set up training equipment or get books and get specific items. This gives players reasons to keep friends alive longer, and help develop them further. The base mechanic, one new skill per day, will remain the same. Only, in addition to this, we have the classes as something to aim for. This way players that prefer to mix it up can do so, and those who prefer to specialize have goals and options that add meaning to their skill choices (instead of picking the default minmaxed skill if the skill you want isn't available to choose). Lastly, using role based items/equipment/weapons will, when skill upgrade comes along each day, replace one of the random skill choices with a skill specific to that particular role. So if you have a survivor, and want to upgrade him to soldier, and all you need is "Heavy Firearms" or 1 more point in Firearms, then equipping them with an assault rifle will offer Firearms as a skill upgrade later on, in addition to the other three random options. Edit: I consolidated my posts as you suggested Nope. Kinda going off what you are saying seeing as you are the closest person we have to a moderator at the moment. Anyway if screenshots aren't up by Friday, they will be ready by Saturday. I know the recent mockups, the forthcoming title screen and actual level data screenshots aren't dazzling, and there has been some trouble with the image hosts. Progress *is* steady though, and we are gaining ground. Every moment that I'm at work I can't wait to get home to work on code/art for this. I'll keep you posted. Cheers!
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Post by tao on Sept 21, 2013 22:02:36 GMT
Rogue Survivor Remake (9-21-2013)Just a quick update. I wanted to release *something* today but coding takes a while. My apologies. I condensed down the threads as you suggested Nope (although it may make it difficult for our guests to know when an update has occurred). And speaking of Lurkers, why haven't more of you signed up or logged onto the forum? From now on every Saturday beyond this point will be screenshot update day. Some day of the week in between will be selected just for quick text updates to keep people informed of progress, I'm thinking every Wednesday, or Thursday. These two separate days will give me time to release larger graphical updates and more polished posts while also allowing for time to get actual prototype code done. Anyway I'll keep you all (I'm looking at you, lurkers), posted. Cheers!
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Post by whatever111 on Sept 22, 2013 0:24:39 GMT
Wow dude, you work fast. Keep em coming!
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Post by tao on Sept 28, 2013 0:09:57 GMT
So its been a hectic week. Never got around to the midweek update. I'm sorry about that. Between brushing up on C#, learning a new framework (SFML), and living life I haven't had much time in between. It doesn't help that 1) NONE of the documentation for SFML is written in C#, its all C++ and 2) There is maybe all of 1 or 2 tutorials on the entire internet for C# SFML, and both are outdated. That said, I managed to make some progress. I put together part of the bare skeleton for an entity/component system, and some procedural-in-OOP hacks to bootstrap the game for now. I have a much stronger understanding of Rogue Survivor now too--the direction it should go, the necessary and unnecessary. It's much clearer now what was missing from the game, and what didn't really add to the core mechanics. I looked back at old papers for a similar project, analyzed and dissected over 30 movies, comics, and games in the genre to comprehend all the angles, first principles, and themes. Additionally I scoured six different forums, literally not sleeping for two and a half days while I read upwards of 500 suggestion threads, made a big list, looked at if they fit with the mechanics/principles/themes and direction for RSR, and whittled em down. I factored in many play styles and even opinions I disagree with to understand the scope of the project. Theres still a lot of work to do documentation/designwise, going over several books I studied in the past again on the design aspect (The Art of Game Design, Rules of Play, the Design of Everyday Things, Flow, Level Up, and a couple others). Most of these I've read and poured over but some I've been itching for a reason to buy. The idea at this point is to acquire a much stronger understanding of the whole genre across multiple types of media, in conjunction with an already relatively thorough knowledge of games, namely in the area of story, technology, aesthetic, and how they enhance and support mechanics/gameplay. Of course that doesn't mean "drop everything and pretend to be busy." I already spend a couple hours before bed, reading, writing and studying anyway so that doesn't take away from the time spent developing the game. It has mainly just been a busy week for me, family life, work and all that jazz. I got glass doors with open/closed/shattered state animations done, along with a few other things. Also, this isn't much but it is something to tide you over till more substantial work can be completed... Thats an actual screenshot. Not very impressive but it will have to do. Hoping by mid-next week or the Saturday after this that I'll have level rendering and some form of streaming up and ready. Also I don't know whats going on with my anonymous image host. Just got an imageshack account and fixed a post because I can't be bothered to keep fixing this if it becomes a problem again. I'll keep you posted Cheers!
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nope
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Post by nope on Sept 30, 2013 4:30:18 GMT
You know, it would make it much easier if you actually posted all your ideas and such on this one thread instead of tossing it everywhere.
Makes it easier, The non-veterans won't be quick-reading every post you create on every thread.
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Post by tao on Oct 6, 2013 2:59:08 GMT
Rogue Survivor Remake (10-5-2013)It has been quite recently. I've been busy with life, my job, and family. I had time set aside for a graphics update but that got nixed for real life matters. (delicious disappointment). What I did complete was a couple of deliverables on the code. Input handling was done quick and dirty, but I put in place more skeleton code to turn it into a component for easy mods later on. I got some of the code for world streaming done as well. While I'm going for feature parity with the original RS, I want to handle resources dynamically; This means no segregated world (which means NPCs don't have to be standing right next to you to follow you to new parts of the map). A streaming chunked level system also means I can dynamically spawn and despawn actual instances of zombies, and each chunk keeps track of the number of despawned undead, and other actors. I haven't added the functions yet, but the system will keep actual zombie instances alive, out to so many chunks in all directions. After say 8-12 chunks, zombies are generalized as entities, in groups, with a certain 'strength' (for example 5-10 = gathering, 10-20 crowd, 20+ = horde, etc), lowering the computing requirements. A grid is 16x16 tiles, and for now is stored plaintext (for all you people who like to cheat), but will be obfuscated eventually, and will soon have as many as 16 layers from the ground floor, and 7 layers below it, up to 8 layers above the ground. I haven't yet figured out how I'm going to cleanly represent height as all tiles are stacked on top of one-another by the renderer, but we will cross that bridge when we come to it. The district system still exists as is, but has been simultaneously elaborated on and simplified. I'll cover it in another post. Past the feature parity stage, when RSR is equivalent to the original, there is a lot of interesting possibilities. I have a small books worth of documents (38 pages) covering all the angles, design decisions, tradeoffs, etc but I won't pontificate on that. To get an idea on how a broader, more featureful game could work, I looked at the potential gameplay from a new player's perspective. How would the game feel in the first five minutes? What features would you discover in the first ten to fifteen minutes? While several tantalizing scenarios presented themselves, they all tended to diverge into distinct types of game, Each came down to a single uniting principle for the gameplay, story, art style, and so forth. If you want players to be able to pick up a game quickly and become immersed there has to be only one or two unifying mechanics or concepts. With the challenge of making a sandbox game, especially in the zombie/survival genre, there are just too many styles of play, and mechanics to cover. Realization struck, I still didn't understand what RSR was. So I went back and replayed the game, read reviews, and did a whole mess load of charts comparing all the aspects of RS with other games. What I learned was this: Rogue Survivor is a Tactical (that means turn based) Open World Game, in the Survival Horror genre. What this means is that you have to employ strategy and careful decisions fighting enemies or avoiding combat where you can whenever you encounter hostiles in the open world. All gameplay happens in a sandbox world where you can go anywhere, and play in the style that you want to play, setting your own objectives, and exploring the possibilities/mechanics/setting. Like most Open World games, players are tossed into the mix, with very little, if any, instructions or directions, beyond the bare basics. The first five minutes of play for the original RS look something like the player doing what they want, exploring, interacting, and so on. Naturally, difficulty starts low to give players time to acclimate. The game then is logically about *how* you survive. But examining the gameplay, at it's core, there is the focus on day by day progression. We can take the obvious metric of 'days survived' and turn it into part of the dramatic, interesting question (DIQ...yeah, I know what it spells), that draws players in--not just "how will you survive?" but "How *long* will you survive?". This has allowed me to dramatically narrow down the potential feature list. I simply asked, for each one, does this contribute to the DIQ or does it distract from it? Does this feature logically expand on the core gameplay, or is it really just something that sounds nice but doesn't fit well ("me too" features). The other thing I noticed was rogue survivor was a sandbox for the sake of being a sandbox. In other words the mechanics did little but contribute to the fun. There are elements of narrative in place, such as Char, NPCs banding together, relations, etc, but they are crude in comparison to other games. Rogue Survivor neglects the huge potential of the survival horror genre, and reduces zombies into generic monsters, instead of existential shambling cannibalistic nightmares. The streets and cities should feel like part of the haunted wastelands of an apocalyptic world. The player should get to experience what it is to be hunted, the last remnants of humanity, get to witness the devastation of it all. Each place they travel, if there is anyone alive there, whatever forts they may have, they will be huddled behind, fighting for scraps, desperate and afraid. Play should always come down to a psychological, unspoken choice made by the player day-by-day in game--To defend and retreat, or attack; to evade or take the direct approach; to go solo or work together--but always the question...hunt or be hunted? Survivors (including the player's character), are reduced to tribalism, and when not fighting an actively hostile environment trying to eat you and them, then battling the elements of exposure, cold and rain, hunger and thirst, fallout and crumbling infrastructure like deadly downed power lines. On the technical side modding will either be done through a component/plugin architecture, or through scripting. With the first option, there will be a folder where people can put C# code components they compiled, and the game will detect them and hook into them (along with any configuration files) automatically at runtime. The second option, scripting languages, can go one of three routes, something ultra simple and self made (probably based on the Pawn scripting language), Lua via AluminumLua, or IronPython which is better maintained. Last but not least, if there are places you feel Rogue Survivor could be improved, features you want, and issues that you feel need to be considered, don't hesitate to post them in the suggestions forum or here. And if you have any other questions, annoy Nope with them. I'll keep you posted. Cheers!
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speakyourmind
New Member
it's me ! your friendly aashole !
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Post by speakyourmind on Oct 7, 2013 20:31:50 GMT
the fórum is dead.game development is also dead.but thanks for the chewing gum!
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nope
Member
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Post by nope on Oct 7, 2013 20:48:10 GMT
I don't know if you have noticed, Speakyourmind, and you probably failed to notice it considering what you are, this is about an attempt to remake Rogue Survivor.
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