Self defense against followers

[wolfe]

This may or may not have been mentioned elsewhere, but it's a difficult topic to search(I tried.)

It seems to me that defending your self against an aggressor's followers who are actively trying to kill you shouldn't be counted as murder. Killing their leader is often too much of a hassle, and leads to the followers just attacking you anyways for the types that count, like bikers and ganstas.

Dunno if I'd call it a bug, but it's a harsh penalty to the player that hurts the gameplay, in my opinion.

[nope]

Actually, Self defense in the case of Indirect enemies depends on the first strike, if B's follower(C) strikes A, A is fighting in Self defense against C, but if A attacks C first, C is fighting in Self defense

[wolfe]

My issue with this is, if B sends his 3 goons after you, and they're actively trying to kill you, you're forced to take a hit before you're allowed to kill them. Being forced to take a hit from an aggressive enemy before you can defend yourself is really cruel in a game like this. It usually results in death, since you're likely to get hit by more than one of them.

And, really, if some thug decides he wants your stuff, and his lackeys decide to help out, they're just as guilty as he is. Seems to me that followers of an aggressor should be flagged as aggressors as well. Self-defense on all of them.

[wolfe]

There's another issue that comes up with this, too.

I just gave the leadership skill a serious try a bit ago, now that I'm familiar enough with the game to keep myself alive and all. I put together a small group of followers, armed them with hunting rifles, and went out for supplies. We walked out of the store, a biker leader decided he wanted my rifle... My people unload on the closest follower of his, one injures, next one kills. I take one step to try to find the leader's location, they gun down another follower at point blank. So, one of my followers is now wanted for double homicide. And the only thing I could have done about it is tell them to hold fire and get murdered by !@#$@'s with bats and golf clubs while they're packing heat...



Even getting hit once is bad news in a game of this nature. Being forced to risk 2-4 hits and possible deaths just to keep the cops off you and yours is harsh. I'd think a simple solution would be to apply a leader's aggress/defense flag to followers, at least for along as that leader is alive. And maybe the murder count should be applied to the leader too, if they initiated the aggression? That would balance out using followers as expendable murder machinery.

[nope]

Well, First, you ain't forced to fight B's guys, You can easily shoot the leader to death and the indirect enemies are gone

Second, The leader getting a murder count for his goons killing someone whom he targetted? no, Just like in real life, if B tells C to murder A, and C does so, witnesses are going to point to C, the Evidence also points to C, the only way B would be connected is if C turns his back on B(But even then the police probably won't believe)

[wolfe]

Alright... I correct my earlier judgement on the matter. It's a bug. Had a follower attack me, killed him, murder count went up.

[youbar]

Just want to point something out:
Police aren't around after the first week. They're all dead. And the occasional live ones? If you're that far in, you should be able to deal with the one police officer. They're usually out of ammo or decided to pick up a club.